WTF Just Happened?!: A Sciencey Skeptic Investigates Even More Evidence of an Afterlife and Fights for Justice with her Dead Dog.: WTF Just Happened?!, #2

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The Worst Of EMDR For Afterlife Evidence

By 2018, I had spent three years examining evidence of an afterlife. I was still a little skeptical, but when I put it all together, I honestly could NOT explain away all that I had learned and personally experienced. Nor could I deny the normalness of the people, such as psychic mediums and parapsychologists, who were supposed to be really weird. But they weren’t.

In fact, some were becoming my close friends.

Some were also becoming mentors. The most important mentors to me were Phran and Bob Ginsberg, the founders of the Forever Family Foundation, a non-profit that certified psychic mediums through science-based testing.

If you read my first book, WTF Just Happened?!: A sciencey skeptic explores grief, healing, and evidence of an afterlife, you know all about them. And if you have not read that book, you will be fairly lost, since this book is pretty much a continuation.

I had gathered a preponderance of evidence of an afterlife over the last three years, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so I was actually just getting started. I pretty much fluctuated between waves of "OMFG there is actually an afterlife! There really actually is an afterlife! and What’s the catch I am STILL not seeing?"

Although, I no longer thought the catch was that the mediums were cheating. I now trusted their honesty and integrity. Most likely the catch would be something that none of us realized. Something unintentional. Like some mind trick that showed our brains are much much weirder than we had ever grasped, and they played really bizarre tricks on us, making seemingly normal people hallucinate, or offering us outlandish interpretations of some strange stuff. Such as the seemingly defy the laws of our universe phenomena the mediums demonstrated at our Forever Family Foundation Grief Retreats and Afterlife Conventions. I still attended all of them to see people I now cared about, to help volunteer, to bond with other grieving guests, and most importantly, to keep gathering my evidence. I continued to take classes at The Rhine, and the IAC (International Academy of Consciousness). And I continued to get medium readings.

And my friendships grew. And more of the evidence of an afterlife that I was gathering added to the already existing preponderance of evidence. Strengthening my hope of an afterlife from a shot in the dark to a possibility and now to a probability. High probability. But of course, along the way I also found some stuff that did not impress me. And some fraud.

The most important person to me in this afterlife world was my mentor, Phran Ginsberg. I stayed with her and Bob whenever I could, in either Long Island or Florida. I sent her endless emails about my latest thoughts on afterlife research, a new book I was reading, and any random thought that ran through my mind about how all this survival of consciousness after bodily death might work.

I was spending the night at her and Bob’s home in Long Island. We were sitting on the very soft, massive couch in the living room, having a glass of wine after dinner, talking about the afterlife and their plans for the Forever Family Foundation. And my dad. And Bailey, their daughter. Phran and Bob, as well as other grievers, got that I loved to talk about my dad. Many people who have not experienced loss assume we don’t want to talk about our people who have passed away. We do! Don’t worry. You won’t remind us they passed. We have not forgotten.

Phran knew how excited I was to learn about new researchers and knew that I was even more excited when I had the chance to meet them.

Phran: So you’re gonna love this! For our next grief retreat, you know Doctor Allan Botkin...

Me: Holy fuck! He’s gonna be at our retreat?

Phran: Will you let me finish!! No, we’re not having Doctor Botkin, but there’s this woman, Doctor Mo Hannah. She trained with him. She’s a clinical psychologist and she also had a daughter who passed away. She has attended Forever Family Foundation events herself, so she will really get our guests and what they’re going through. She works primarily with patients in trauma and grief. I asked her to come talk about EMDR for IADC and the work of Doctor Botkin at our next retreat.

Me: Oh!! Amazing! And I would love to talk to her about EMDR too. I had a few sessions with a woman, but wanna try someone else. Have you and Bob tried it?

Phran: No. We never did. How was it?

Me: Honestly, I was disappointed. But I think that was because of the therapist. I’m thinking of flying out to Chicago and trying it with Doctor Botkin.

Phran: Why were you disappointed? Was it because you didn’t have an IADC and get to talk with your dad?

Me: Pretty much.

Phran: But did you feel better?

Me: I think so, but it was hard to tell. I did it shortly, like only three days, after the first Forever Family Foundation conference I ever went to. The one where I met all of you, and the mediums. That conference helped me so much. I was significantly happier for the first time since losing my dad after it, so I’m not sure if EMDR added to that at all. I was enjoying everything much more so what I really wanted from it…

Phran, mentally a step ahead with a million thoughts always running through her mind, jumped in before I could finish.

Phran: I know. I know. To get evidence.

Me: Yes. I wanted to see my dad and ask him to tell me something that my mom knew and I didn’t.

Phran: Right. But they don’t guarantee an IADC. It doesn’t happen for everyone.

Me: I know. And I was prepared it might not happen for me, but that wasn’t the only issue. There were some issues with the therapist too. So that’s why I thought of trying Doctor Botkin. But this woman sounds amazing too.

Phran: See what she says and learn a little more before you pay to fly all the way to Chicago. And I am sure you will have fun asking her all of your questions.

Me: Ha. I will!

Phran: But what happened that was so bad with this therapist?

And I filled her in.

But first, I need to back up and explain what EMDR and IADCs are, and who Dr. Allan Botkin is. I first learned about Dr. Allan Botkin in 2016, shortly after my dad passed when my grief was still very raw.

Dr. Allan Botkin is a traditional psychiatrist who specializes in PTSD in war veterans. One therapy technique he uses is called EMDR, which stands for Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. This is a type of rapid-eye-movement technique, which causes a kind of hypnosis that is said to unlock brain waves that get stuck during moments of trauma.

So here is the crazy part. One time, while treating a veteran, Dr. Botkin accidentally took a patient through an extra set of eye movements. During traditional EMDR, the doctor takes the patient through a set amount of series - a certain count of movements of eyes to the left and right - back and forth. Stops. Then takes them through another series. Dr. Botkin miscounted and added an additional series. He thought it was an inconsequential error. But then the veteran had a visitation experience, in which he communicated with his deceased army buddies!

As any traditional Doctor would be, Dr. Botkin was very confused. But he was also intrigued. It never crossed his mind it actually had anything to do with anything like life after death, but he wanted to figure out what actually had happened. So he experimented with this change in technique, and the same thing occurred again. And, then again. People experienced communication with deceased loved ones. Not every time, and not every person, but often enough for Dr. Botkin to think it was something worth pursuing, even if he couldn’t understand it.

Though he was baffled, he began to wonder if maybe it did really have something to do with an afterlife, especially when a few cases not only transformed his patients' PTSD, but there was actual verified evidence which backed up these patients actually HAD communicated with people who had passed away.

For example, a man tragically killed a family he had never known in a car accident. While not a veteran, he suffered veteran-level PTSD and sought out the help of Dr. Botkin. Understandably, he could never look at photos of the family he killed. He wanted to know nothing about them. But, for years, he suffered from incapacitating guilt. Then, during EMDR therapy, he saw this family and communicated with them. He profoundly apologized, and had a moving and healing communication. The family told him they knew it was an accident and that they were fine and happy on The Other Side. Afterwards, the man looked at photos of the family for the first time. The family he had seen during his IADC was identical to the family in the photos!

So Dr. Botkin labeled this experience an IADC (Induced After-Death Communication), curiously pursued it, trained others in it, and wrote a book.

When I first came across his work, I had to ask my psychiatrist mom what she thought.

Me: MOM!! MOM!!! Have you heard of EMDR?

My mom came and stood in the doorway of my childhood bedroom, where I had moved back in during the first year after losing my dad, when I couldn’t function—when I couldn’t let my mom out of my sight for fear that something would happen to her too.

Mom: Yes. I have. It’s supposed to be very helpful. I don’t want to train in it, but it has helped some of my patients. Why?

Me: Have you heard of Doctor Allan Botkin?

Mom: No. Who is that?

Me: He’s an EMDR expert and uses it to help veterans process their PTSD. Anyway, he accidentally found this technique where his patients began to talk to people on The Other Side.

She closed her eyes and took a deep breath.

Mom: I should have realized when you sounded so interested it had something to do with that.

Me: But this is a very normal psychiatrist and you should at least look into it.

Mom: Not a chance.

Me: But some is evidential and...

Mom: Look, this medium thing you’re into is weird enough. I don’t want any of this hocus pocus in my work too.

Despite my mom thinking this was complete nonsense, I found a therapist nearby who practiced EMDR for IADC. I messaged her and booked two sessions. But it didn’t go well.

At the first session, this therapist I will call Dr. S., led me into her office, a typical comfy therapist's set up. A plush beige couch, lots of plants, a large chair, and an antique looking wooden desk decorated the space. Dr. S. had short blonde hair cut into a bob, and she wore fairly stylish black rimmed reading glasses. ​After introducing herself, she had me fill out a lot of paperwork, which asked questions such as have I ever experienced any severe trauma (yes), what kind of trauma (loss of my dad), and when (2015). It then prompted me to rate on a scale of 1 - 10 how affected I was by this loss in terms of sadness, anger, and fear.

I was mainly sad. Anyone who tells you grief vanishes one day, it doesn’t. It evolves and takes on different forms.

But back to this appointment at the end of year one after losing my dad.

Dr. S. asked me to share the memories I found the hardest.

Me: Him not ever answering the phone.

Oddly I still expected he would, even if logically I knew that was impossible. My mind knew, but my body hadn’t caught up.

Me: Remembering the ups and downs during the illness. Would he get better or not? Going home and he’s not there. I feel shocked every time he isn’t. Although of course, I know.

I added the details about hospitals and hospices that nobody ever needs to hear about, unless you have no choice. If you know, you know what I mean.

Dr. S. then asked me if I had any questions.

Me: When you do the EMDR, does my brain match a medium's brain activity? I know many of the mediums have had brain scans while doing readings and they show certain brain wave patterns. Does this EMDR therapy cause my brain to follow the same patterns?

Dr. S.: You know I’m not a medium. This isn't a medium reading.

Obviously. Wait. Did this woman know what she was doing?

Me: I KNOW that. But does the EMDR cause MY brain to mimic the brainwave pattern of a medium's brain? Especially if I have an IADC.

She didn't know about the brain studies I was talking about.

Dr. S.: You know I can’t promise you will have an IADC. But I can promise this will reduce your sadness.

I was okay that she could not promise. Mediums could never promise that the person you wanted, or even anyone, could come through. But I was still curious and wanted to try, no matter the odds. Honestly, curiosity was the only thing that kept me going at this point.

We spent the whole session going over my answers. I was a little disappointed we never got into the actual EMDR, but I returned the following week for the next session. I got comfortable in a soft leather chair. Dr. S. sat across from me.

We practiced the technique of EMDR. My eyes followed her finger, left then right, and back and forth. Then she told me to close my eyes and picture peaceful scenes like lying in a field of grass or being on a beach. My mind felt a slight kind of dreamy-ish shift, but nothing drastic.

She told me to remember a happy moment with my dad, picture it as vividly as possible, and then take the happiness up to a higher level. I did picture the moments and did feel some of the emotions, but I wasn't able to increase or decrease the happiness.

Then we started to get into each individual painful memory.

Dr. S.: Remember how it felt the day you got the call. Remember the feeling of walking into the house and his room in the apartment and he wasn't there. Remember realizing he will never be there. Remember every detail and feel the sadness.

I tried.

She kept telling me to take my sadness higher. I felt a little sad, but pretty much went numb and did not feel like crying. It began to feel as if she had an agenda, that I was going to break down crying.

Me: Umm, I really have a different dialogue for all this loss stuff now. It’s not as intense. Or sharp, I guess.

Dr. S.: This is how you have to do it to have the experience. You are so close to an IADC.

I felt a wave of excitement. I was?

I tried with a few more memories. I tried remembering and re-feeling broken down bits of the worst thing I had ever experienced in my life. But I couldn’t get any sadder.

I felt uncomfortable with how she thought I should demonstrate my sadness - intense emotional bursts of tears instead of the chronic but less acute ache those tears had slowly settled into. I felt the irritation and impatience she was trying to hide at what I sensed was my lack of sobbing.

Dr. S.: You have to feel it to release it. It’s your sadness that is blocking you from the connection, and you haven't processed it, or let yourself fully feel it.

I might not be a doctor, but I know I definitely DID process everything. And felt everything. I literally lay in bed sobbing, overwhelmed with images and emotions that enveloped me and took me over physically for months, until bit by bit they were replaced with hopes of a new dimension to the universe I could have never fathomed. And the healing warmth of some amazing new people I also could never have fathomed, added to ease the loneliness of my life as 50 percent an orphan. I was now sadder than I have ever been. And I was also happier than I have ever been. I had a permanent grief, but a certain existential dread and terror of death that I hadn’t even known I had been carrying around was replaced by awe, curiosity, and amazement.

I tried to push further and increase this sadness, but I couldn’t. I didn’t feel that sharp stab of early grief anymore. It was more of a dull ache. So I couldn't sob the way this woman seemed to need me to. My brain did feel a little bit wavy, the way it had when I somehow became a medium, at the Forever Family Foundation convention, but a much milder version. Then it was done and I felt a little disoriented but nothing major.

Dr. S.: So how was it?

Me: Umm, I didn't make any connection to The Other Side or anything. But it was kind of… nice. I felt slight waves.

She pounced immediately.

Dr. S.: You need more sessions, so let's book the next one.

These sessions were not cheap and I had only planned for the two I was initially told it would take. I was also not expecting that the first hour and a half session would have been only talking, with no EMDR attempt. I wouldn’t have minded, if she had told me that beforehand. Maybe I could have filled that paper out in advance and emailed it in instead of using an entire session?

And, honestly, I just had a bad feeling about the whole thing. Something did not sit right.

Me: Umm okay. Let me look over my schedule and email you.

Dr. S.: Let's make one. Right now. Next week I have Tuesday at 4.

Me: I'll email.

Dr. S.: I’m going away so we need to book. NOW.

I firmly let her know I would email her. After that lack of respect for my boundaries, I decided I would NOT be returning. No matter what.

When I got home, I emailed Dr S. a polite message, and respectfully thanked her, letting her know I would not be doing a third session. She called me about ten minutes later. And she called again. And then again. Leaving a message each time insisting I MUST call her.

I messaged back that I could schedule a 15-minute call and sent her some time options. Damn that woman needed boundaries.

And the call was exactly as I expected.

Dr. S.: You were so close to an IADC. The only reason you didn’t have an IADC was because you have not processed everything.

Her voice oozed with contempt. I was firm. No, I would not do another session. There is NO way I would ever do business of any kind with anyone this pushy and disrespectful. Let alone a type of business where I was expected to trust her and be vulnerable.

Dr. S.: Well, since you had such a wonderful healing experience, if you have any friends who are actually capable of handling it, send them my way.

Smart business tactic ma’am.

I shot a text to my cousin.

Me

I think I just met the Landmark, leggings, essential oils, take your pick of MLM, rep of the EMDR world!

Cousin

LOL!!! And ugh. I’m sorry you dealt with that.

And Phran unsurprisingly had an opinion.

Phran: What an asshole! That’s the problem with some of these people. They take one class or read one book and suddenly they think they are experts on grief. She probably didn’t even do the full training. Or, even if she did, she knows nothing about grief.

Me: I know!

Phran: I’m glad you’ll get a chance to meet Mo. She’s wonderful. This one sounded like she preys on the grieving. That’s despicable! But don't let it put you off of EMDR any more than a bad medium should put you off mediumship.

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And The Best of EMDR for Afterlife Evidence

At our next Grief Retreat in Florida, I had a chance to meet Dr. Mo Hannah.

We were all back in the large American Marriot hotel conference room, with blasting AC and floral carpeting, that while a little tacky, corporate conference room-ish, had come to feel like a home. This was where I had met all the mediums and Phran and Bob for the first time two years earlier.

Phran: This is Liz. She does our social media. Be prepared, she will be asking you tons of questions all weekend. But she loves science and learning about all the evidence.

Mo Hannah: Hi Liz. Nice to meet you.

Dr. Hannah was a petite woman with long gray hair that she had tied up in a knot. She was wearing the black t-shirt (a favorite of Phran too) that said Get an Afterlife. Despite her casual attire, she looked like a therapist, or maybe an artist.

On day two of the retreat, Dr. Hannah gave her presentation about afterlife evidence, living with grief, and EMDR therapy.

She shared about her daughter Monique, who had suffered from mental illness and taken her own life. Throughout her talk, Dr. Hannah radiated warmth, depth of knowledge, and was a testament to the fact that even a parent who lost a child could find joy and meaning in their life again. A message many parents in early grief desperately needed to hear. They got a bit of hope for something that had seemed impossible to them. In fact, we all did, no matter the nature of our loss.

Dr. Mo Hannah: When the unthinkable happens, you find meaning. Helping others is one of those ways. Viktor Frankl said you can survive anything if you can find meaning in it. He was a Holocaust survivor. He had a right to say that.

She continued.

Dr. Mo Hannah: To get through this... to have a life again, you have to change your state of consciousness.

She was very careful to explain these were all just tips and options. This would not apply to everyone, and people could take what resonated or leave what did not. She got how much people needed to hear that disclaimer. Anyone who has experienced a major loss will know that people come out of the woodwork to tell us exactly what we should and should not do. And often those who have never lost anyone seem to be the ones who do this the most. Somehow becoming experts on a topic they have no idea about.

Dr. Mo Hannah: I realized I had to make the decision to survive, and then more than survive, to thrive.

Finding meaning. Finding purpose in life. Feeling our feelings fully. Those were all some of the tips she shared.

And, of course, gaining evidence of an afterlife.

Now knowing her daughter was still with her and that she could connect to her, was key to her healing. Like many of us who had never thought there could be an afterlife, when she discovered the evidence, her hope in the possibility of an afterlife changed. And her grief transformed.

Dr. Hannah found out about Forever Family Foundation years ago when she stumbled upon a Forever Family Foundation event for grieving parents where Laura Lynne Jackson was giving a group reading. At that time Dr. Hannah, a logical and intelligent clinical psychologist, "knew" that anything like an afterlife or mediumship was complete nonsense. But she was desperate. And like most people in the early stages of grief, she was willing to try anything. And then Monique came in for her very clearly. And other parents' kids came in for them. And like me and many others... she saw the evidence. She saw Laura know things she could not have known in a materialist, consciousness created by a brain world.

And like me, she HAD to know more about what had actually happened!

In her exploration, Dr. Hannah discovered the work of Dr. Allan Botkin. She had a session with him, and it was transformative in helping her heal. As a therapist herself, she was compelled to get trained in it.

While there was not time to demonstrate a full session of EMDR for IADC here at the retreat, she offered to do a mini demo for us to see how it could be healing in unlocking blocked shock and trauma. A woman who had lost her son recently, volunteered to be the patient in the mini-demo.

In terms of technique, the process was a version of what I had experienced with Dr S., minus the paperwork. But the energy and approach was completely different. Dr. Hannah was very careful to make sure the woman was okay. That she felt safe. That none of this went past her boundaries. Dr. Hannah focused on this woman, her needs, and her emotional state.

She asked the woman to think of her worst memory, while carefully staying with her to make sure she was okay.

Dr. Mo Hannah: You can share it aloud if you are comfortable doing so. Otherwise it’s okay to keep it to yourself.

Dr. Hannah explained that often the reason we cannot connect with our loved one(s) who have passed, is because the memory of the trauma gets stuck in our brain and body. And so do the details surrounding the loss. That is unprocessed trauma. So even if you do not have an IADC, the process of EMDR allows the brain waves and body to begin to process the trauma and start to heal the pain.

This woman shared about when she first got the call her son had been in a serious accident. She described the level of pain as a ten.

Dr. Hannah gently instructed her to move her eyes side to side. She asked the woman to picture the memory, again and again.

After about five minutes, Dr. Hannah stopped and asked the woman what her pain level was now.

The woman sat and felt her emotions for a minute. She then looked stunned.

Woman: I... I can’t believe it. It’s less. It’s not as brutal or sharp. I feel better. Maybe it’s a six?

It was clear she had not expected this to really work. Or even imagined she could ever feel better.

Obviously, this level of healing wouldn’t be permanent. But, with a series of longer sessions, it seemed there could be significant healing. Dr. Hannah also let her know if she tapped her knees in rhythm, left then right, this could reinforce the benefits of the session. Of course, a level of pain would always be there, and the toxic positivity obsession of our culture to cure grief and make it completely go away is a losing battle.

Yes, grief will always be there. It will be a constant part of your life. But as Dr. Hannah said, you can find meaning in it. You can integrate it into your life and find joy, have fun, and live a happy and purposeful life again.

Dr. Hannah then opened the floor for questions.

I raised my hand, and Dr. Hannah pointed at me.

Me: Have they scanned people’s brains during EMDR? And, if so, are there any similarities to the results Dr. Jeff Tarrant has gotten when he scanned mediums' brains when they give readings? And is there a difference in the brainwaves during EMDR when someone has an IADC versus when they don’t?

Dr. Jeff Tarrant, whose work I was a bit obsessed with, is a licensed psychologist who is board certified in neurofeedback, according to his website. In his research, he has used an EEG to scan and map psychic mediums’ brains while they gave readings. He discovered that mediums had atypical brainwave patterns when they gave readings.

He also noticed that there was a difference in brainwave activity when these mediums gave psychic readings versus medium readings. As I explained in my first book, there is a difference between the two kinds of readings. A psychic reading is when someone reads the energy of a living person. The probabilities surrounding their future. Are they in a good relationship? How likely are they to get the job they want? A medium reading is when the reader connects with someone who has passed away. A line Loyd Auerbach was always careful to teach us was that all mediums are psychic, but not all psychics are mediums.

Laura Lynne was one of the mediums who participated